RacingBrake Header H1 Image
  spacer
 Home RacingBrake.com  
General Information
    About Us
    Brake Technology
    F.A.Q.
    Feature Comparison
    Manufacturing
    Product Knowledge
Products
    Search by Category
Dealers
    Find a Dealer
    Become a Dealer
    Dealer Login
Media Center
    Gallery
    Magazines
    Testimonials
Forums
    General Discussion
    New Development
    Product Reviews
    Key Messages Posted
    Latest Topics
Support
    Careers
    Contact Us
    Privacy Policy
    Tech Tips
    Warranty Information

  Payments

 Payments

 

Go Back   RacingBrake Forums > Category > New Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-24-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
bostonaudi
 
Location: Charleston, SC
Thumbs down RB R32 caliper failure

Seems like folks who've bought the new RB VW R32 caliper upgrade are having leaking issues. This could potentially be fatal:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42431

If this customer is being blaming for using these for racing, completely unacceptable (given the name of this company - what the heck are they for then???). Seems like this part was released without proper testing and QC.

What is being done to resolve it? Anything? I was mildly interesting in pursuing these until I saw this.
bostonaudi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 05:57 PM   #2
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

Thank you for asking.

He has GTI (not R32). If you are long enough in this type of business, you always run into this kind of unfair and unjust claim once in a while, however we have his correspondences to prove his faulty wheel bearing has caused the previous claim which we helped him to resolve, but he kept coming back and demanded for more "warranty" service/replacement so we had to turn down his request.

We always try to help our customer in resolving the issues even often they were caused by their unfitted counterparts or wrong installation/application, but we expect customers come to us with respect, instead of "If you don do this for me you'll see, ....).

At this point we are not preparing to waste our time in responding to this internet scam, however he shall be held responsible to what he said and did. We have his order record and a link of this reply is being sent to him for any further disciplinary action as necessary.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 09:23 AM   #3
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

A notice has been sent to Mr. Lizanda Pandy to reveal the complete story on his internet posting, including his own repair to the leaky bleeder valve that he had overtightened, which is the root cause of his accident.

If he failed to respond to our request in a timely manner, we will reveal the true story of why he made such a post because we denied his repeated "warranty claims", and let the truth unfold.

We have in business long enough to deal with this kind of situation, and our policy has never changed:

RB is committed to providing the most valuable brake products and serving our customers, however we reject unreasonable and unfair customers that put blames on us for their mistakes, nor would we accept any threat from anyone with internet scam. (If you don't give me free repair or replacement I am going to ...).

As an established and lawful company, we run our business under the law. If a known individual that acts like to blackmail us we may report him to the authority for any legal action.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #4
bostonaudi
 
Location: Charleston, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingbrake View Post
A notice has been sent to Mr. Lizanda Pandy to reveal the complete story on his internet posting, including his own repair to the leaky bleeder valve that he had overtightened, which is the root cause of his accident.

If he failed to respond to our request in a timely manner, we will reveal the true story of why he made such a post because we denied his repeated "warranty claims", and let the truth unfold.

We have in business long enough to deal with this kind of situation, and our policy has never changed:

RB is committed to providing the most valuable brake products and serving our customers, however we reject unreasonable and unfair customers that put blames on us for their mistakes, nor would we accept any threat from anyone with internet scam. (If you don't give me free repair or replacement I am going to ...).

As an established and lawful company, we run our business under the law. If a known individual that acts like to blackmail us we may report him to the authority for any legal action.
I am guessing this was user error as well. From the posts he's made it appears the calipers were damaged then he obviously could not return them.

However it might be enlightening to post a brief message on how your testing process works to provide confidence that there are indeed no issues with your calipers developing leaks. I for one have never run into a situation like this where a brake line won't seal.
bostonaudi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:48 PM   #5
fishysam
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonaudi View Post
I am guessing this was user error as well. From the posts he's made it appears the calipers were damaged then he obviously could not return them.

However it might be enlightening to post a brief message on how your testing process works to provide confidence that there are indeed no issues with your calipers developing leaks. I for one have never run into a situation like this where a brake line won't seal.
I really really hope i dont have any of these issues... i've only just installed the kit on my own car after sitting on the shelf for almost a year...
fishysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #6
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

Our calipers are 100% hydro tested to 3000 psi prior to packaging and shipment.

If you have some mechanical engineering background you will agree that there is no better assurance for a leak proof calipers than conducting such a test. For example most mass production units like OE calipers only perform the leak test by air (at 80-100psi) or no test by some aftermarket caliper re-builders.

We have shipped thousands of calipers in the past and never had a claim like this. Obviously this customer has done some further repair/modifications to the calipers, after we carried a warranty repair for the issue caused by his overheated wheel bearing, by himself from the failure of his own which he admitted to have overtightened the bleeder valves.

Rather than admitting his mistake and asking for help, he kept pursing us for yet another warranty repair, which was rejected by us. So we had no idea what repair he did to the calipers, as from there on he shall be solely responsible for his own repair at his own knowledge/skill/cost/risk.

We can only build and make the parts, how they were installed and used are beyond our knowledge and control. We wouldn't accept any unjustified claim and we denounce any blackmail, even resulting with such a distorted story/posting on internet.

Offering the best brake products and customers' service has been our policy in the past decades, nothing has changed since and I think this is your best assurance than reading someone posting a "failure" that purposely ill-portrayed us for a bargain he didn't receive, and an incident resulted from his improper repair.

If anyone is not comfortable as a result of reading his posting we can even honor a return of your purchase (less shipping), whether it's installed or not.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 09:55 PM   #7
fishysam
 
Default

There's been more than PandaGTI's failure.

crew219 had 2 fail on him.. Just don't trust them.

I appreciate the reply, but I'll be looking to return my kit.
fishysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 08:56 AM   #8
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

It's all about how the calipers are installed and maintained, i.e. bleeding after brake fluid changes.

RB calipers have been installed in various car communities notably in RX7, RX8, Acura, STi and EVO.

Anyone has doubt about RB caliper quality can check these car communities about how RB calipers stand to rigorous application after years' installation.

Understand we only make the calipers, and there is no way for us to guarantee the installation and maintenance are properly done once the units are shipped. It could well be that VW is just not a community (as a whole) that's ready for aluminum calipers application & upgrade.

When that kind of "failure" was posted, some intelligent questions to ask would be:

"Did you installed the caliper yourself or by a COMPETENT brake professional?",

"When you bleed the air, have you followed the right sequence and the valve is properly torqued to 9-10 ft-lbs"

"If you over tightened the valve, have you seek professional shops' help or tried to fix yourself and how they were fixed"

We found it's useless for us to defend to those negative postings resulting from their unfair demands that were not entertained.

Over decades RB has established itself as a professional brake company setting the new standards in performance brake industry, so you can either trust us or believe what's posted on the internet with distorted/concealed stories, it's a choice for you to make - No hard feeling, that's why we offer a return if that's makes you fell more comfortable.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 07:56 PM   #9
fishysam
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingbrake View Post
It's all about how the calipers are installed and maintained, i.e. bleeding after brake fluid changes.

RB calipers have been installed in various car communities notably in RX7, RX8, Acura, STi and EVO.

Anyone has doubt about RB caliper quality can check these car communities about how RB calipers stand to rigorous application after years' installation.

Understand we only make the calipers, and there is no way for us to guarantee the installation and maintenance are properly done once the units are shipped. It could well be that VW is just not a community (as a whole) that's ready for aluminum calipers application & upgrade.

When that kind of "failure" was posted, some intelligent questions to ask would be:

"Did you installed the caliper yourself or by a COMPETENT brake professional?",

"When you bleed the air, have you followed the right sequence and the valve is properly torqued to 9-10 ft-lbs"

"If you over tightened the valve, have you seek professional shops' help or tried to fix yourself and how they were fixed"

We found it's useless for us to defend to those negative postings resulting from their unfair demands that were not entertained.

Over decades RB has established itself as a professional brake company setting the new standards in performance brake industry, so you can either trust us or believe what's posted on the internet with distorted/concealed stories, it's a choice for you to make - No hard feeling, that's why we offer a return if that's makes you fell more comfortable.
Thanks for the response.

i am infact a mechanical professional.. i like the product, it looks good. But why are these people having crossover pipes coming undone? and why did one customer have a piston seal fail?

I've got a car that owes me $60k... and i don't want to stand on the brake pedal at the end of the straight on a race track doing 220+ km/h and have the pedal hit the floor...

I'll be dead, and the coroner will be chasing you..
fishysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 08:35 PM   #10
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishysam View Post
But why are these people having crossover pipes coming undone? and why did one customer have a piston seal fail?
Are you aware the pictures and story posted in the internet do not necessary have to be true?, and the person posting the info don't even need a real name, nor they have to be responsible to what they have said.

As far as we can certify, the units were tested to our specs before shipped. If customer did install and maintain them correctly they shall last for years and will never have such things happened, so how that happened it's for you to ask them what they might have done wrong during installation, and when went wrong how the units got repaired.

You took their words for sure and kept questioning on us rather than asking those questions in previous posting, why?

We already offer you the option to return your purchase so it's your choice to make.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #11
fishysam
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingbrake View Post
Are you aware the pictures and story posted in the internet do not necessary have to be true?, and the person posting the info don't even need a real name, nor they have to be responsible to what they have said.

As far as we can certify, the units were tested to our specs before shipped. If customer did install and maintain them correctly they shall last for years and will never have such things happened, so how that happened it's for you to ask them what they might have done wrong during installation, and when went wrong how the units got repaired.

You took their words for sure and kept questioning on us rather than asking those questions in previous posting, why?

We already offer you the option to return your purchase so it's your choice to make.
I wouldn't call a 20% restock fee + frieght a return. You should be more clear when making an open offer, then changing the rules privately. Returning the brakes would cost me $1050. They cost me $1890. Do you think thats fair?

Here's where you've gone wrong, and perhaps why people are critical of your customer service;

1: The internet now controls your business. If you want to operate a sucessful online business you need to handle complaints with more tact than you have. Telling an internet forum that two identical independent failures are both the customers fault only breeds doubt. GOOGLE "racing brake" and tell me what comes up.

2. It is not up to me to question YOUR customers about their failures. Thats your job.

3. Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't take their word for sure, i was simply expressing my concerns over the product. Instead of reassuring me that you have sold many of these units trouble free and referring me to a testemonial, you blamed it on someone else. Perhaps educating people on how things can go wrong when they are assembled or serviced incorrectly would put my worries at ease.
fishysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 06:48 AM   #12
Yak Meat
 
Default

Ive had the kit on my 04 VW R32 for 6 months and 5 track days (Lime Rock, NHMS, and NJMP Thunderbolt) 2 days each at the later 2.

I have had no problems not caused by myself, after several brake bleeds, several pad swaps, and inspections where i took everything apart.

I will admit the problem I had was when I overtightened a bracket and this caused the threads to strip upon hard braking at Lime Rock where the caliper would rotate side to side and occasionally rub the rotor. However, I found out after that the bracket is only supposed to be bolted at 40lbs, not beast mode (aka me hanging off a racket tightening it down).

RB got me a new bracket in literally 3 days from when I called and after the issue was completely gone and I know now not to super tighten the brackets, the bleeders and everything. Bleeders should never be super tight, just till they stop leaking...
Yak Meat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 08:48 AM   #13
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

Thanks for sharing the experience.

As I always say we being as a developer and mfgr we can only design and build the parts, after parts are shipped how customer would "install" them and "use" them can vary the result.

Our calipers are individually hydro tested to 3000 psi then the test fluid is drained out before they were packed and shipped. This is a very time consuming process, but also is the only way to assure customer gets 100% leak free calipers.

If anyone ever works on his house plumbing he should learn how to tighten the fitting with compression rings. Same as the bleeder valve, it's a metal to metal contact which only needs to apply just enough torque to seal the leak, over-tightening can damage the seat and cause the leak.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:43 AM   #14
Great White
 
Default

I just wanted to report back the excellent results I had at Willow Springs International 2 weekends ago. The calipers perform excellent under hard braking, the car tracks very straight, it also has good modulation, and have yet to have any of the hardware leak or anything alarming. I did go over the bleeders and crossovers to snug them up after my initial break-in, but I warn everyone to be very careful with the hardware since they are wear and tear items, don't over-tighten them.

I believe that is what contributed to the issues mentioned is this thread...

on with the pics...





Great White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:18 AM   #15
BetaOp9
 
Default

I am considering the RB Caliper upgrade for my MKV R32 which currently run the 2-Piece rotors. Are all of these torque specs and care provisions provided with the kit? I don't want to run into issues because of being uninformed. Looking forward to ordering these!
BetaOp9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:52 AM   #16
Yak Meat
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaOp9 View Post
I am considering the RB Caliper upgrade for my MKV R32 which currently run the 2-Piece rotors. Are all of these torque specs and care provisions provided with the kit? I don't want to run into issues because of being uninformed. Looking forward to ordering these!
All the specs are given. I just ignored the caliper to bracket spec of only 40lbs and totally beast moded it. Because i did that, i think i may have weakened some threads, and once they were weakened, when i went to brake really hard coming off big bend and limerock, i think i may have tweaked the bracket...

since i got the new bracket and torqued everything right, no issues after 4 more track days.
Yak Meat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:35 PM   #17
racingbrake
 
racingbrake's Avatar
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaOp9 View Post
I am considering the RB Caliper upgrade for my MKV R32 which currently run the 2-Piece rotors. Are all of these torque specs and care provisions provided with the kit? I don't want to run into issues because of being uninformed. Looking forward to ordering these!
This thread is for 13" kit (for MK4 GTI/R32 upgrade). If you have MK5 2 piece (348x30) we have a thread dedicated for MK5 R32 development, OE size PU kits are available for immediate shipment and we shall expect some installation reviews soon.

Please post any further questions and comments there. All installation specs are provided in the installation kit.
racingbrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #18
fishysam
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingbrake View Post
This thread is for 13" kit (for MK4 GTI/R32 upgrade). If you have MK5 2 piece (348x30) we have a thread dedicated for MK5 R32 development, OE size PU kits are available for immediate shipment and we shall expect some installation reviews soon.

Please post any further questions and comments there. All installation specs are provided in the installation kit.
So after 6 weeks installed on my car, and 2000kms of street only use my drivers side caliper has failed and started leaking fluid.

They were not modified, or repaired prior to being installed by a professional mechanic.


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket



fishysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 04:08 PM   #19
Great White
 
Default

have you tried tightening the crossover line, I had to tighten one of mine up after the install. It's good practice to keep an eye on them during break-in, just spray them with some brake cleaner after you tighten them so you can see if any fluid has leaked. This is common practice from what I've seen online.
Great White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 07:59 PM   #20
Bandit
 
Default Cross-over-tube

Has anyone bothered to take off this tube completely in-between brake bleeds to check on the flange the nut rest against and which seals inside the caliper? It should be a double flange and not single. It should also show no signs of cracking along the flange at all. If it's cracked then it has to be replaced. If it's not double flanged, which reduces the tendency for cracking, then it should be replaced with one that is. I believe if you take a look at all hard lines on cars today that the flange on the hard line is double flanged and is a requirement for DOT and other manufacturing specs. for other countries because it is a superior method for a reliable, and safe method of connecting a hard line to other brake parts. This may be hard to see given the equipment to do this is quite good in covering up the double flange appearance. I'll have to research a web-site link to show this more clearly, but I believe you may be able to find it in an Earl's catalog. If I'm wrong on this I also report back and let you know.

Al
Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:53 AM.
View Forum Archive.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
   
  TPM Products Inc. Copyright 1985 - 2009 TPM Products, Inc. TPM® and RacingBrake are our trademarks.
1556 Kimberly Avenue, Fullerton, CA 92831, Phone: 714-871-6392 Fax: 714-871-9736